That pitch sounds utterly retarded. A white costume. The angel of the bat? Jesus my beads.
Frank Miller's Batman is transcendent of the rest of Bat-canon, imo. Paul Pope and others can reference it if they want, but I've always viewed the DKR and DK2 books as otherworlds, or sort of to Batcontinuity as Preacher was to the rest of Vertigo. In other words, not very.

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Frank Miller's Batman is transcendent of the rest of Bat-canon...

Well, for full disclosure, I've never read DK or DK2 (unless syou count flipping through it at Barnes & Nobles one night). I've just the opinion, and tend to believe it, that Miller's Batman has been used in the DC Batman -- making him more of an anti-hero, because "teh Dark Knight was r0xx0rs" or whatever.

For my money, I don't believe in a "Bat-canon" (not to be confused with the "Bat-cannon," which we all know exists) really. Batman, like Transformers and the classical muses, is a much more interesting character when you strip away all canon and just pick'n'choose your history.

(Sorry if this floods your email box...)

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"She still issues righteous beatings because she's a little bit old testament, but she talks scripture with both the minister and the gang members."

If I didn't know better I would swear that had to be a YABS send-up.

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Batgirl, with Bible-thumping action!

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Jesus effing christ, as if I wasn't ready enough to torch my collection from the past four years because every goddamn story had been done before in the 15 years previous and pretending it's hot new shit.

Though I'll be here arguing that the ethics morals and methods Batman teaches ARE the tenants of a religion. I really wonder how he'd take to one of his "disciples" converting away like that.

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Considering that Dick Grayson is Catholic, I believe, I don't think he'd care. That's what I really disliked about that pitch: the entire point was to get away from the grimness of Batman. Batman, at it's very core, if you can read it with the understanding that vigilantism is illegal, is about civic responsibility, loving thy neighbour, going the extra mile, and I'd even say turning the other cheek -- how easily could Bruce have shut down his company, putting thousands of Gothamites out of work, just to spite the city that killed his parents.

Heck! One of the tenets I was taught growing up in church was do things (prayer, fasting, donations) because they're the right thing to do, not because of the glory of it. Wearing a mask as Batman is about as close to that as a non-Christian story could probably get.

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Catholic? Since when?

Sleeping with alien princesses without even THINKING of getting married is even LESS OK than beating people up without benefit of a legal authorization.

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I'm probably wrong on the Catholic thing.

*googles*

Hmm. Could be he's just an implied Christian. That's likely mostly fan speculation, though.

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That's better than Marvel's various religion botches.

Ben Grimm, Catholic Jew (same religion, right?)

I wonder, though, is Micro Lad still jewish?

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It had to happen sometime. This is the first time since you mentioned progammitic (or is that programmatic) loops to me, that I'm disagreeing with you on something.

Granted, there's some canon/continuity issues yes, but the base idea is pretty sound, opportunities for conflict boundless ...

Basically, I like this pitch.

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Meh.

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A) I think Gail could pull it off.

B) Even if she couldn't, it'd still be preferable to what we DID get, yes?

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A) Oh, I'm sure it would sell like hotcakes.

B) Cassandra rying in issue #73 has been my best case scenario for six months now.

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rying == dying

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hm. Maybe I'm just being contrary today. It happens. ;)

I'm not enthralled with the direction of the pitch either. But I do get where she's coming from with the "no forgiveness" angle. I don't see Batman as particularly forgiving; redemption isn't really part of his primary mode. "A single second chance", maybe, at best--exemplified best by his relationship with Plastic Man in Morrison and Waid's JLA. Did he really *forgive* Plas for his past criminal past? At best he was giving Plas the chance to "work it off." But I don't think for a moment that he ever forgets Plastic Man's origins when dealing with him.

--at least, the uber-asshole Batman of the past many years. (I would also not object to a Frank Miller retcon.) I'm still chewing over the fact that he left *Harvey Dent* to guard Gotham in his absence during the 52 year. That's a fundamental, quantum shift. (The farthest I've gotten is that Batman considered Two-Face a *different person* than his old friend Harvey. Self-delusion is the sincerest kind.)

As far as Cassandra goes, during a large part of the Batgirl series, Batman was in *complete* denial about the murder she'd committed. Every time Barbara tried to bring it up, he shut her down. Refused to hear it. As much as stuck fingers in his ears and went "la la la la la I can't hear you!" Because by his eight-year-old emotional logic, you cannot kill and still be Good. Cass was Good. Therefore, she had not killed.

--which is why Diana drives him (heh) batshit. She has killed and will again, and is not insane or evil, but good. And more than good, an actual representative of Truth. She's a contradiction he just can't wrap his brain around. She both facinates and terrifies him for that reason. Because if she's right, and sometimes killing *is* necessary...what has evil has he allowed to flourish, in refusing to do so?


I need caffeine.

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